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Welcome my friends to season 3 of the Determined to Dance podcast. My prayer is that you’ll be encouraged to persevere daily in our chaotic world.
Show Notes: An Interview with Jeff Walling Part 2
Today I’m honored to share part two of my interview with Jeff Walling: author, speaker, and the Director of the Youth Leadership Initiative at Pepperdine University. We’ve spent this season learning from his wonderful book, Daring to Dance with God. Now on to part two…
Jennifer: One thing I wondered about because it’s something as a fiction writer people ask me is what is your favorite quote in the book? And I know there are probably tons of them. But is there one that really stands out?
Jeff: I may have to get back to you on this. That’s kind of a frightening thing after thinking back all those years. I know there are some quotes in that passage on letting the Lord lead, you know, the importance of doing that and how control is the hardest thing for us to let go of.
Ideas, yeah. Quotes? As a writer, you’re just busy trying to get it from your brain out through your fingertips. You challenge me to go back and say is there a passage where I say, “Oh, God, you did a good job on that one.” I’ll get back to you.
Jennifer: My favorite story in the book is the one about you manning the record player. That one stood out to me more than any of them.
Jeff: Yeah, a few years ago, quite a while now, I found a time in my life where I was burned out, tired of marching, I knew it was because I was tripping over stuff I shouldn’t be tripping over. And I remember going to a therapist, a Christian therapist, and telling him about that experience and about the record player. And he gave me a new perspective. He said, “Wow. That was your way of hiding and coping. That was your way of making a joke out of it. Let’s somehow make this fun.
And you talk about a quote, he said, “Jeff, you like many people don’t enjoy sitting in pain.” We learn so much more, I know this, through pain than we ever do through pleasure. And yet we try to eradicate pain just as quickly as we can. I have probably eight different kinds of Advil or Tylenol or aspirin in my cabinet because why should we hurt, even for a moment? Spiritually, oh my goodness, to be able to just listen to the voice of God in the pain.
That’s the only reason that the prodigal son got home. If he had managed to make himself some kind of pig slop taco, he’d have stayed where he was. But the pain, the agony of man, this is not what God wants for me is what helped him make the turn.
Jennifer: I totally agree. It seems like, especially when I’m frustrated when I finally get to that point of saying, “Okay, God. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing here. He says, “Okay. I’ve been waiting for you to say that. Now let me tell you what you’re supposed to be doing here.” Pain, aggravation, frustration—all of it brings me to that point.
Jeff: Amen. We need to be like the woman who had spent all her money on the cures, right? Who was still bleeding. Who’d gone on the misery-go-round over and over and over again, and finally, she was willing not only to go out in public in a crowd—where she wasn’t supposed to be—but to just reach out and touch the hem of his garment. I love that picture. I hope your listeners will hear the voice of God saying, “Don’t be ashamed. You might not dance like somebody else, and somebody may look at you like you’re goofy but just look into my eyes and dance with Me. Let me guide you in celebrating life, using your gifts and skills even when dancing through the pain.”
Jennifer: That was a good chapter. And we have about six or seven more episodes on the podcast. I plan on doing some filling in and at the end, I’m going to deal with the last chapter. We’ve already been touching on a lot of trust and faithfulness. This week’s podcast was on the end. The end time. Getting ready to meet our Savior, tying on to where I’m going.
Jeff: You mentioned the end of the way. A dear friend, Rubel Shelly, his wife passed away this week. Rubel was a minister in the church and a long-time friend. Such a great line: he said, “You know she and I dated and I remember those days of walking her back to her dorm and walking her to her apartment.” And he said, “These last few months, I got to walk my girlfriend home, one last time. And I just thought what a beautiful image of what God wants to do is to finally just walk us home one last time.
Jennifer: I guess, what I touched on, was I called it Our Temporary Life and how temporary life is. As I get older, I’m realizing wow I’m much closer to the other side.
Jeff: Well, you know, that’s how I believe Enoch got to be with God. The Bible says he walked with God and one evening they’d walked so far and he said, “I gotta go home, God.” And God said, “My place is closer. Just come there.”
Jennifer: Yeah. That’s great. Love it. All right, the last question I wanted to ask you was how did your writing the book Daring to Dance with God change—if it did change—your life’s direction or what did it do that might be different than what you imagined? Because usually stuff always does.
Jeff: Well, first it gave me a whole other level of respect for people who write. I’m a speaker, I’m a preacher, I’m a teacher here at Pepperdine. I’m a professor and ill begin a class here in a couple of weeks for freshmen on the parables of Jesus. Man, that’s like eating chocolate. But being put in a room by myself, with a computer trying to distill words down to those key elements. It was miserable. I got halfway through and went, “What have I started here?” But thank the Lord, by finishing the book and getting some of the wonderful feedback, praise God for all of it, it prompted me to write a second book. And a third. I’ve been so blessed by that experience and just by getting more into writing because it lasts. As do podcasts. By the way, Jennifer, your voice is going to be out there for years and years to come. I hope my great-grandkids enjoy it.
Jennifer: Yes, it’s crazy to think about that. I saw someone “like” a post on my old blog the other day. I thought I needed to go and find out how to get rid of that blog because it’s not relevant for today.
Jeff: Whenever we open up the Psalms, and just enjoy or be in agony with David, or be in question with him. What an amazing thing that the shepherd boy became a king and wrote those things more than two, or three thousand years ago. And yet we’re still moved by them. And if any of your podcast listeners are budding authors or just thinking about it, I have two words.
Do it. Use your gifts. Start your blog. Write that article. And then share it. Mom taught me this little light of mine, don’t put it under a bushel. If you’ve got some beautiful pieces that you’ve written and you think oh, who would want to hear these, share them. Don’t hide them. Who knows how God will use them? God may be inviting you to dance with Him with a pen in one hand.
Jennifer: That’s right. I mean, when I started writing, I thought I was going to be a nonfiction writer. I love self-help books or anything like that. Well, I’m a fiction writer. Nonfiction hasn’t worked for me. I mean, I’ve done little blog articles and things. You never know the direction. I never thought I would be podcasting until I was challenged to try it. They were like I think you have a message to put out there. I’m like me? You never know the doors that God will open.
Jeff: Amen. And we just need to be smart enough to give Him credit whenever anyone says that was good.
Jennifer: Well, Jeff, we really enjoyed you being here today. I’ll put this podcast interview out in a couple of episodes. We’ll enjoy finishing up the book. I know that everybody’s excited and glad that we got to meet you and learn a little bit more.
Jeff: Well, thank you so much, Jennifer. Thank you for all the readers and if they haven’t read the second book called Until I Return: Twelve Things Jesus Wants Everyone to Know, I’d invite them to see if they’d enjoy that one as well. But God bless you in the work you do and thank you for letting me come and share even a few minutes with you.
We will put both of Jeff’s books in the show notes and also a link to his Amazon page.
This is the end of my interview with Jeff Walling. I so appreciate Jeff spending time with our listeners.
To me, nothing is better than dancing with God. To let Him lead me where I need to be even when I might not agree, then later see that of course He was right all along.
Let’s pray: Father God, thank You for Your grace, joy, peace, and love that You spread in abundance. Help us to learn from Your Word and discover the path of our lives through the Bible and prayer. You are good beyond measure. In Jesus’ name, we pray, amen.
Dancing with God is a good decision every day.
Today’s featured author is Dawn Shipman, author of Quest of the Queen, a Young Adult Fantasy novel.
Princess Lyric has lost much, but she is fighting desperately to regain her throne and defeat the wizard who longs to destroy her land. Quest of the Queen is Book 2 in the Lost Stones of Argonia trilogy. The epic finale, Battle for the Crown, is due out in October.
Learn more at Dawnshipmanfiction.com
Next week, we’ll focus on part one of facing the final fight. Until then, stay determined to dance…
Links:
My debut novel, Jessie’s Hope
Video of the week:
I absolutely love music and each week I’d like to share a relevant song we can enjoy together
